Wednesday, June 18, 2008

Voice of the Faithful weighs in on women priests

A few weeks back, the Vatican decided to draw a line in the sand over the ordination of women as priests. Women who had been ordained illicitly and invalidly were to be automatically excommunicated.

Now, Voice of the Faithful has weighed in -- and to the surprise of no one, has sided with the women.

A friend who is on their mailing list forwarded me this e-mail:
In response to the Decree of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (CDF) against Women's Ordination, we the members of Voice of the Faithful New Jersey support the following statement issued by CORPUS - National Association for an Inclusive Ministry.

Priesthood serves the People of God by bringing healing and hope through sacramental celebration and pastoral care. It is God's People who must discern their leaders and it is the bishops of the Church who are called to validate this in the normal course of events. When that validation is withheld for reasons which have nothing substantial to do with ministry, then the baptized community must call bishops to respect biblical norms and Gospel imperatives. The life of a community and of the Eucharist cannot be held hostage to Church policies which undermine them. A baptized community has a human and evangelical right to community, pastoral care and Eucharistic celebration.

For these reasons, CORPUS stands in solidarity with those ordained women who followed their calling and were selected for priesthood when bishops rejected them. When rejection is based on weak theological reasons and on a refusal to dialogue with or hear these women, then the community must act against what is sees as an injustice, indeed discrimination, and behavior which Christ could not endorse.

To excommunicate all these women, "latae sententiae", automatically, without a hearing and due process, is the mark of a frightened and absolutist leadership. No democracy or humane government in the world employs its harshest penalty automatically against its citizens, without due process, redress, appeal, open courtrooms, judicial restraint and equity. It astonishes us that a Church we love can act in so desperate and destructive a manner. We, therefore, in the conviction that the future church will find this action shameful and unworthy, stand in solidarity with our sisters who seek to serve God's People and are treated as criminals. They are branded as sinners to be excluded from the very sacramental life of the Church which their ordination was intended to make more abundantly available. Irony is too weak a word to describe this; tragedy is a more accurate description.

In addition, we offer the following points:

1. The Papal Commission on the ordination of women found no biblical justification for the exclusion of women from Holy Orders.

2. The National Review Board set up by the bishops in Dallas in 2002, made clear that the "clerical culture" of the Roman Catholic Church was a root cause of the sex abuse phenomenon. The ordination of women and of a married priesthood would help reform that culture.

3. History informs us that ordained women ministered to their faith communities in the early Church and throughout the first millennium.

4. As the faithful we have a responsibility in Church law to express our needs to our pastors. The Holy Spirit has spoken to women among us. They have courageously responded.


We know from our historical experience that silence implies consent. Catholic theology and tradition teach that an unjust law must be resisted and that a dubious law need not be obeyed.
Nice of them to share their thoughts, no?

I was under the distinct impression that VOTF was on a mission to bring clarity, transparency and accountability to the hierarchy.

I didn't realize that also included an effort to reverse a definitive papal pronouncement that is very close to being infallible. As John Paul put it (lest we forget):
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.
You can read the entire document at this link. And the subsequent clarification on its infallibility can be read right here.

Like it or not, to quote a familiar voice: "That's the way it is."

26 comments:

  1. I'm always amused and amazed by people who clearly don't want the church to be what it IS, but what THEY WANT IT to be.

    Why don't they just go start their own churches, then? Or you know, join the Episcopal church - it has everything they want.

    Unless of course, it's not about being Catholic at all, but about deconstructing Catholicism, which is what I suspect.

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  2. Voice of the Dissenters would indeed do the Church a most charitable service if they were to leave and join the episcopalians or form their own "community", though it would be to the detriment of their own salvation.
    "where the bishop is, let the people be, just as where Christ is there is the Catholic Church". St. Ignatius of Antioch

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  3. I am a Catholic woman from New Jersey and if silence shows my support for the catholic church and what the church teaches, I will pray to remain silent.

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  4. Wendy, many of us are not able or gifted to speak out (at least not outside the safety and anonymity of blogs and comment boxes).

    However, if you are firm in your convictions, by all means, speak out and let your voice be heard. "do not be anxious about what you will say...the spirit will speak through you." (matthew 10 - paraphrased)

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  5. 2,000 years of tradition to end just because suddenly there is this feeling of entitlement? And WHEN did they say there was no biblical justification? Jesus chose the 12 disciples... All men, therefor setting a precedent. Paul speaks of choosing seven men to care for the community (Deacon Greg's predecessors). Paul also says that the leaders of the emerging communities were to be men. THere are many more passages I can cite. There was no Biblical justification for CELIBACY... that was politics dealing with inheritance of Church property (another story). But certainly there can be found what could be deemed as justification for a male priesthood (I'm Catholic now, but was raised Baptist... I KNOW my scripture!). I doubt very much these passages would have been overlooked by the commission. It is simply an "inconvenient truth" that Voice of the Faithful will not be able to get around.

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  6. A couple points.
    I too am surprised that VOTF would weigh in. It'll weaken its core mission if it embraces too many church issues.

    Alas, I disagree with you on the women ordination issue. I think the On Faith columnist titled Catholic America made valid points.

    Here's the column link:
    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/catholicamerica/2008/06/when_popes_go_too_far.html

    Welcome back. I was having Deacon Bench withdrawal.

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  7. I've never seen your blog before. And I am not a member of VOTF. However, I am a strong, solid, long time supporter of and advocate for clergy abuse victims. Having heard more stories directly and read more about the subject than I care to think about. VOTF's second point is quite true

    ". The National Review Board set up by the bishops in Dallas in 2002, made clear that the "clerical culture" of the Roman Catholic Church was a root cause of the sex abuse phenomenon. The ordination of women and of a married priesthood would help reform that culture."

    The only way to address the issues surrounding the scandal of the rape and soul murder of innocent children, and the years of adversarial treatment rather pastoral care by the US bishops is to change the clerical culture.

    Listening to the sensus fideli and dialoging about matters like women's ordination, mandatory celibacy, selection of bishops, rights and responsiblities of bishops, priests and laity, will advance the cause of breaking down the corrupt nature of clericalism.

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  8. Mary...

    I agree with your fundamental point: that the clerical culture needs to be changed.

    I also think the underlying problem of clericalism is, as one former priest noted in an e-mail to Rod Dreher, actually narcissism.

    Accountability and transparency are needed. Along with much, much more maturity on the part of some members of the clergy.

    As a married member of the clergy, I can't dispute the fact that it has clear value to both the hierarchy and to the people in the pews.

    But I know from my own experience that I have a hard enough time balancing my work, marriage and ministry; no one has successfully explained to me how a priest would do this, or how his family would be supported.

    Significantly, the Church has not yet closed the door on a female diaconate. That is something I may well see in my lifetime. I'm not as convinced about the female priesthood. It doesn't seem to have done much good for the Anglicans.

    Blessings,
    Dcn. G.

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  9. Dcn G,
    Yes, narcicism is a huge problem. Yes, accountablity, transparency and maturity amongst all church workers(lay or ordained)is much needed for a healthy church.
    About a married clergy.....I'm sure it could be complicated. However, you separate your "work" and your "ministry." At this time your diaconate ministry is not well compensated. But why can't priests be better compensated? There are many models that work for other Christian communities.
    About the Anglican model for women's ordination: From what I understand the culture didn't change. Only women were added. For the most part until very recently it's been a "boys club" as far as real authority.
    Also many times when women get into positions that had been closed to them, they act like little men, rather than creating a new kind of institution, utilizing both women's and men's gifts.

    Blessings to you and your family as you juggle all your responsiblities.

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  10. One of my pastors (I regularly attend two churches; in my neighborhood and when I'm visiting my parents) gave a really good homily that applies to this. He explained how all baptised Catholics are called to the priesthood (note the lowercase "p") evangelizing etc. The best point I've heard about not ordaining women is the priests role "in persona Christi" both at mass and confession (reconciliation). At the risk of being a bit irreverent, "Jesus was a dude". So, a woman acting "in persona Christi" doesn't make much logical sense.

    Deacon, I was glad to see your mention of the women in the diaconate. Seems to make a lot of sense and could help alleviate some personnel issues.

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  11. Jesus was also a Jewish carpenter. Does that mean that only Jewish carpenters should be priests?

    I know what the official church position is. I just don't agree with the logic.

    In Jesus' time women were their husband's, father's or brother's property. I can see how this became a tradition in the church over time. I just don't see how a tradition becomes infallible. Especially when it comes to something like the priesthood.

    Jesus ordained NO ONE. Our example is that Jesus treated women very differently from the norm of his day. Why would we assume that when it comes to ministering to people in the very special way a good priest does, women would be excluded if it were up to Jesus? I see no evidence for that.

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  12. All due respect, A Jewish carpenter is a carpenter and probably isn't called to be a priest. That being said,mary, I would have been on your side not five years ago. Teaching religion has led me to more "learning" about my religion.

    Matthew 16:17-19 (NAB usccb.org)
    This seems like an Ordination of sorts:
    "Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

    I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    I have never really heard a reasonable explanation as to why women should be ordained Priests.

    Obviously Jesus treated women differently from his contemporaries, I point that out to my students all the time; but in our tradition, women were his disciples but not his Apostles. The Apostles being his chosen 12 all of whom were men. The Marks of the Church are that we are One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic not "Disciplastolic".

    My point from my previous post may need clarification. My understanding of a Priest acting "in Persona Christi" (and correct me if I'm wrong those who know more) is not that they are acting as Christ but that Christ is in effect acting through them. I think it would be a little weird for a woman to be acting "in Persona Christi" during Mass.

    The Priest gig, in my not always humble opinion, is for men. All of us are called to minister to our neighbors but why do you need to be a priest to do so?

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  13. At the risk of being a bit irreverent, "Jesus was a dude". So, a woman acting "in persona Christi" doesn't make much logical sense.

    That's only true if you believe metaphor is reality, that God would have had to make Jesus a hermaphrodite if he wanted both men and women to act in personal Christi, and that people are too stupid to understand why a woman is on the altar because, after all, "Jesus was a dude."

    Sorry, but the only reasons to prevent women from being priests are cultural and misogynist.

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  14. The book “Women and the Priesthood” by Sr. Sara Butler, MSBT is an excellent and very clear explanation of the Church’s teaching regarding the Ordination of women. Sr. Sara was originally in favor of women’s Ordination, but she changed her mind after studying the issue. This book is the fruit of her research. I would recommend it to anybody.

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  15. It would be neat if someone could explain to me why women must be allowed to be Priests.

    As I said, I'm all for equal opportunity BUT I have no problem with the Ordained Priesthood being reserved for men.

    The church needs to re-examine the role of women in all ministry but to cry "misogynist" seems silly.

    AND I'm not even going to start a rant on the whole hermaphrodite thing, I mean seriously?!

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  16. There is no possible way to purport that only males can be priests without that meaning that somehow women are less than men.
    Our country has a history of just that kind of thinking...and has recently gone beyond that. I remember a time when black men couldn't play professional baseball. It's simply time for a church based on the teachings of Jesus, a rebel, who acted outside the bounds of his culture in his treatment of women, to follow Jesus. It's simply unacceptable to preach and teach that women lack the qualities required by priesthood.
    The result of "elevating" only men to receive that special gift of the official priesthood has been to deny the church the gifts that women can bring the church, especially in the area of decision making and problem solving. I simply do not believe that if women had had real power in the church, there would have been the scandal of the decades and decades of cover up of crimes against children.

    If that is the ONLY reason to allow women ordination, it's good enough.

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  17. I'm feeling that sense of entitlement again........

    Remove ALL TRACES (look inside first) of entitlement due to gender or any other reason. Then begin the discussion again.

    see post #16 at http://deacbench.blogspot.com/2008/05/buh-bye-women-priests-formally.html

    Peace be with all of you.

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  18. Oh by the way mary...here's the line that got me...

    "if women had had real power in the church..."

    Women will not ever become priests unless they give up the "real power" mentality. That's what gets the men in the priesthood into so much trouble...
    It's not about power...WE ALL already have the POWER! Jesus gave us ALL the POWER at Pentecost.

    Which power are you talking about?



    In the name of our brother Jesus, I love you all.

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  19. Doug, I really don't think it's an issue of entitlement. It's about an understanding of women that has changed since the time of Jesus. Women, in the time of Jesus, were considered property. Jesus addressed this, but the men of the time didn't really get it. Now most people get it. Women can do any service a man can do. I don't see it as women deserve it. I see the male only priesthood as a mistake made in a prior age because of cultural norms that no longer considered norms. I see the abuse scandal as just one of the outcomes of that mistake.

    I see the ruling of the papacy on this issue to be about protecting the reputation of the papacy, and individual popes. If you haven't read it, take a look at Garry Wills' Original Sin.

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  20. About the real power in the church comment. I mean power to make and enforce decisions. And this applies to men who are not clergy also. What I am advocating for here is not just women's ordination, but a complete overturning of the power structure of the church. The structure itself is flawed.

    For instance, I know a women who is the victim advocate for a diocese. It has finally been proven to her, beyond the shadow of a doubt that a much beloved priest in her diocese was an abuser. Criminal statue of limitations have expired. She is convinced there has been a cover up of his crimes, including rape of an 8 year old girl and embezzlement of funds. She cannot do anything about this.

    The board appointed to investigate the abuse scandal in 2002 complained that it had no authority.....none to demand cooperation by a diocese, bishop or a priest. No real authority. This is what I'm talking about when I say power.

    The only people who can do anything are bishops and they are men.

    As long as men are the only final decision makers in the church abuse will continue.

    And I believe this to be true, not because women make better decisions. But because the idea that women don't have the authority to make a final decision in the eyes of the Church is so indicative of a flawed culture (clerical, narcissitic culture)that abuse can be the only result.

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  21. And ordination of women would solve this? NO... Weeding out the bad apples would have. And to the point of African-Americans playing baseball, I hardly see how that applies. That's called civil rights in our country, decided by our government... Our country cannot enforce the ordination of women as this is not singularly a United States issue. The fact that the pope's decision is challenged is proof enough that there is a problem with ordaining women. Like Doug said, it's not about entitlement. And what does being a priest have to do with men being better than women??? Neither is better or worse, but we MUST accept that we are NOT the same. How can we be equal? Men cannot have children. As I have posted here before, why is the example given by the Virgin Mary so beneath women? I just don't get it.

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  22. Mary,
    Convince me that women should become priests WITHOUT using any trace of entitlement.
    Convince me by NOT using the argument that having women priests would unequivocally stop ANY...not just sexual, ANY and ALL abuse in the Holy Catholic Church.

    Convince me without being so demeaning to men...convince me without thinking that this is about women or men(it is NOT about US either), convince me without using worldly terms...speak to my HEART!!!, and I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you and fight for this.

    Please forgive me my trespasses, but no-one, man or woman, has ever yet made a valid point to ordain women priests with any of the arguments you've used.

    In Jesus name, may we all continue to recognize His grace in our differences...I love you all very much...

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  23. There is a connection between historical discrimination. Slavery was accept biblically and part of the basis for our culture of slavery and discrimination against blacks is because of the bible. It's about decisions based on difference decided arbitrarily by those who have the "ruling power" whether it be the government or the institution of the church.

    Biblically there is a definite connection between ordination of women and black being discrimated against. Slavery was accepted in biblical times. In fact St. Paul connects the importance : Neither male nor female, slave or free....all are one in Christ (I don't have a bible where I am right now....so I don't have the exact quote. What Paul was saying was that Jesus' teachings changed EVERYTHING.

    I think Paul really believed that. I think that he was simply pragmatic about how he went about life. He thought the second coming was imminent....so baptizing everyone was imperative. Communities that would accept women in ministry had women in ministry (Prica, Lydia, Junia) and communities that didn't accept women in ministry didn't have them. The new christian communities didn't plan on a priesthood or hierarchy like we have. Just a bunch of communities, with leaders called forth from the community.

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  24. Decision making all by men?

    I'm aware of many women who are in roles of making decisions because we have Priests who are pastors of multiple parishes. Principals, Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, and other high level roles in the Archdiocese of Seattle are all held by women. Parish councils routinely have women serving. Women serve as business managers and office managers in many parishes. While for the most part the Pastor's decision is the final, Priests would not be very successful if they didn't listen to their advisors - many of whom are women. Trust me, I've witnessed people leave a parish because the Pastor didn't listen to them.

    Mary said...
    There is no possible way to purport that only males can be priests without that meaning that somehow women are less than men.


    Funny, as a cradle Catholic I have felt that women (Mary, Saints, Moms, Relgious, Single Women) are revered and honored by the church. I have never felt "less than" because I can't be a Priest.

    Honestly, so what if Women can't consecrate Communion or confer the forgiveness of God in reconciliation?

    As yet, nobody has explained why women (who are equal to men and yet different from men) need to be priests to minister to the faithful. I've been a youth minister, an extraordinary minister of the eucharist, a religious ed. teacher, and lector. I've served on mission trips and teach at a Catholic school. In all these roles I am blessed to minister to a variety of people in a variety of ways.

    I think we need to focus on defending the many good and great Priests who are subject to ridicule and slander because of the contemptable behavior of relatively few.

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  25. Exactly! All ARE equal... But that does not speak to the question for the ordination of women. They are mutually exclusive arguments. Women HAVE an active role in ministry. There are 23 other hours in the day when the priest is not celebrating mass. During those 23 hours ALL faithful men and women are called to spread the Good News through their lives, their actions, and their words.

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  26. Can I get a "AMEN" for those last (2) comments???????

    As I have paraphrased before
    ...if this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if is from God, you will not be able to stop it.(Acts 5:38-39)

    Have faith sisters that if God wants this to happen, there is nothing any man or group of men can do to stop it.
    In the mean time, rejoice in what the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ has called each of us to. It is only in that faith that I would ever be convinced that women should become priests...if God wants it to happen, then I want it to happen.

    May every one of us fully accept the grace and peace of Jesus.
    I love you all...

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