Why do you think people leave the Catholic Church? We tend to accept the explanation that suits what we'd prefer to believe. In a short exchange on a combox yesterday, Daniel, who is a liberal Catholic, expressed his belief that these people get fed up with the dogmatism. I started to say that they wanted more substance, of a conservative sort, out of Christianity than they were getting at a Catholic parish, but then I realized that I really don't know.Rod raises a very interesting point.
The sort of conservative/orthodox Catholic who is fed up with the liberalism, or absence of orthodox Catholic teaching and liturgical practice at his parish, is not likely to leave Catholicism, because he or she has a prior belief that the RC Church is the true church. Those conservatives who would leave (usually for an Evangelical church) are those who, for some reason or another, cease to believe the Church of Rome's claims. I will concede that Daniel's view is probably closer to explaining why Catholics leave than mine, but not quite for the reason he thinks. If you reject the dogma of the Catholic Church, why would you stay when we live in a society in which changing churches is common, and there's little or no social penalty attached to it? Could it be that yes, they do reject the dogmatism, but it's less a matter of, "...and that's why I'm outta here!" than a shrug of indifference, along the lines of, "Well, it doesn't really matter what one believes, so I'm going to find a church that suits my beliefs better?"
Again, I don't know. Have there been any studies?
The Pew study tracked Protestants who left one Protestant church for another (e.g., Methodist to Presbyterian), but it didn't track the same dynamic going on within Catholicism. It's called parish-shopping. Most dioceses have one or more parishes known to the faithful as the "conservative" parish or the "liberal" parish, and Catholics to whom this sort of thing matters will cross parish lines to attend. I would think that as long as this dynamic exists within Catholicism, you are going to have fewer people leaving the Catholic Church, because they can find a place for themselves there.
From my experience, most alienated Catholics have wandered away not because of dogma or doctrine, or even discipline. They're willing to live with the sometimes difficult teachings of the Church, even the ones with which they don't entirely agree. They're even willing to forgive (after a lot of prayer and teeth-gnashing and soul-searching) the financial and sexual scandals that seize the headlines.
No, what drives people away is often something far simpler and, in a way, far more sinister.
It's other people.
It's the priest who condescendingly tells a grieving daughter, after her mother's funeral, "Now you can really grow up. You know, we never truly become adults until after our parents die."
It's the deacon who refuses to anoint a baby at a parish baptism because the family arrived late.
It's the pastor who won't take the time to listen to a teenage girl's problems because "it's just hormones."
These are real examples from people I know -- and the people who experienced them walked away from the local parish and, eventually, the Catholic Church. There are many other factors that contribute to religious alienation, I know. But, like the woman at the well in last Sunday's gospel, people are thirsty. What are we giving them to drink?
UPDATE: Andrew Sullivan has a heartfelt response to Rod Dreher's posting, explaining why he's remained Catholic. And there's some great analysis of this situation over at Amy Welborn's wonderful site, as well. Deacon Keith Fournier, meantime, places this development in the context of the New Evangelization.





17 comments:
I'm sure that the kind of bad experiences mentioned here are a factor. But I also believe that the Church has simply not stated clearly why anyone should be Catholic.
I am in formation for the diaconate and have a question I ask every priest who teaches a class: What do you tell someone who wants to know why he should be Catholic instead of belonging to another Christian religious group? I have yet to hear what I consider to be a strong, compelling answer. The Evangelicals have one. The Mormons have one.
So, I'll pose the same question here to the deacons and priests reading this. What's your clear, succinct, compelling answer to that question?
I am an aspirant to the diaconate and and life long Catholic.
Rocco at Whispers posted another link to this homily today. I can't say it any better than Bp Zubik did!
http://kdka.com/video/?id=32367@kdka.dayport.com
He really gets going about 6 minutes into it. (the first 6 minutes are words of thanksgiving, etc)
These are real examples from people I know -- and the people who experienced them walked away from the local parish and, eventually, the Catholic Church.
Yet this raises another good question. What is the faith of these that they would leave the true Church because someone essentially wasn't nice to them? I'm sure we have all encountered at one time or another a priest or religious that snubbed us or was rude, condescending, aloof and so forth but in the words of Peter, "to whom shall we go Lord, you alone have the words of eternal life."
David, I hope you are asking a rhetorical question.
I am a cradle Catholic of 53 and have OFTEN asked through 35-40 of those years, "Why I should remain Catholic". I have found the answer and the excitement that Bishop Zubic talks about ONLY through seeking the truth. I have never gotten an answer to David's question that was sufficient to my mind from any human being - and I have stopped asking. But when one of my very good friends, who is Lutheran, started asking ME David's question, the advice I gave him was to sit down with the Word of God, get out of His way (it's not about you)and SEEK THE TRUTH.
+Doug
I agree that often the reasons that Catholics leave is 'people' But sometimes those people are in the larger society and the pressures of that society to conform to it's teachings rather than the Church's.
I left for more than ten years in part because of some fairly bad experiences with priests (on par with the examples you list). I still avoid anyone ordained as much as humanly possible because if I don't interact with them... they won't get a chance to be mean or hurtful.
At the same time I will also say that I was away from the Church because I didn't want it to be right about things that were difficult. As a young woman I didn't want to be obligated to follow teachings that would make my life difficult.
It was only as I read more and realized that the Church did teach the truth and that it wasn't just meaningless rules set up to ruin my fun that I was able to return.
For me a turning point was reading Humanae Vitae and realizing that somehow a Pope was able to (before I was even born) see the bad results myself and my friends were experiencing as part the contraceptive culture. It was amazing that I realized that by following the teachings of the church on that issue I would have saved myself a great deal of heartache.
In the end I returned to the Church because I realized there was much more there than I was taught in CCD (which was basically nothing) and there was solid reasoning behind those teachings.
I wonder what the age distribution of 'former Catholics' is. I know plenty of people who have left and then returned. Perhaps they attend a different denomination for a bit, or perhaps they drift away from religion all together but it does seem that there is a phase in most young people's lives where they turn away from the Church.
As a convert and someone who has heard and read a lot of conversion stories of people returning to the Church - I did not see the common thread as bad behavior from other Catholics. Surely that is true for some, but by and large it was a ignorance of the faith and the total breakdown in catechesis.
Many mention going to Protestant churches because of the feeling of community and the emphasis on learning scripture and serious study.
Growing up when I was still an atheist I would go to a Catholic Church with my mother who was a convert just to please her. It was a typical modern parish that was all about singing modern songs, limp homilies, and presenting a watered down faith. Hearing what I did and talking to the priests there I had zero interest in the Catholic faith. A year of going to Mass with my mother and I had no idea what the Eucharist was. I had no more idea of Church teaching when I stopped going to Mass as when I started going to Mass. This was an active parish with lots of events and rock music at Mass (which I liked at the time), but there was not passing on the depth and truth of the Catholic faith. Both priest left to get married and the parish now of days is only open part time and run by a "pastoral associate."
If I had been presented the truth and beauty of the Catholic Church I still might have remained an atheist till age 40 due to my own hardness of heart, but I would have at least known what the Church taught.
Certainly there are a myriad of reasons why Catholics fall away, but it seems to me if they knew that Jesus was Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist and an idea of the depth of the faith there would be less that did so.
While all of the posts site valid reasons for the exodus of Catholics from their faith and many moe exist, the most precise in my book is Jeff's experience. As I stated earlier, it is by the grace of God that I am as excited about my faith as I am. (8) years of Catholic grade school and (4) years of CCD classes after that never showed me the beauty of Christ's divinity in His humanity.
Make no mistake, I hold no grudge or ill will of any kind toward the Catholic Church for they are the life blood of my faith. But free will aside, the magisterium bears some, even if it's only a modicum, of the responsibility. In some ways, it still teaches with a Vatican I mentality; teaching what to do but not WHY...not exciting people. Those of us who KNOW THE TRUTH and ARE EXCITED ABOUT OUR FAITH need to STEP UP AND LEAD OUR CATHOLIC COMMUNITYS under the guidance of our magesterium.
If not us - WHO?
If not now - WHEN?
I for one am excited for this challenge that God has seen fit to trust me with. Evangelization needs to start at home...evangelize a Catholic...answer David's question.
+Doug
Of those 35,000 polled, I would be interested to know how many of the Catholics that left the Catholic Church, were actually practicing when they left. In other words, many, many people label themselves as Catholic, but haven't been to church since baptism, or first communion, etc. - cultural Catholics. I think this is the case in France today. When asked, a large percentage of the French say they are Catholic, but Mass attendance is paltry.
What is the possibility that these people who "left the Catholic Church" were never really there to start with? What if they were just cultural Catholics (because their parents were Catholic) and one day they heard a compelling message from an evangelical?
Just a thought.
In Christ,
Brad
I think this all comes down to Love.
How much Love did you experience in your hometown parish as a child in CCD or Catholic School?
How much Love did you experience at church during youth group in your high school years?
How much Love did you experience in campus ministry during college?
How much Love did you experience in church during your young adult years when you were seeking a spouse?
How much Love did you experience when you were planning your wedding?
How much Love did you experience in the Sundays of the middle years Sunday in and Sunday out -- in easy years and hard years?
How much Love did you experience when a loved one died and you were confronted with questions of life and death?
The Love from the parish community? The Love from the clergy and religious? The Love from the person sitting next to you in the pew?
Did these bring the Love of Christ into your life?
That's why some stay and some go.
I think that if Catholics do a better job in involving them selves in the Faith ( for example, reading the Sunday scriptures ahead of Mass so that the homily makes mores sense) and take advantage of Stations of the Cross, Novenas, Scripture Classes--the Catholic religion will mean much, much more to them. It did for me.
This is perhaps my favorite quote from the Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism:
"For although the Catholic Church has been endowed with all divinely revealed truth and with all means of grace, yet its members fail to live by them with all the fervor that they should, so that the radiance of the Church's image is less clear in the eyes of our separated brethren and of the world at large, and the growth of God's kingdom is delayed. All Catholics must therefore aim at Christian perfection and, each according to his station, play his part that the Church may daily be more purified and renewed. For the Church must bear in her own body the humility and dying of Jesus, against the day when Christ will present her to Himself in all her glory without spot or wrinkle." (UR 4) (my emphasis)
It certainly challenges all of us, doesn't it???
As a convert and newly ordained deacon, it is my belief that many leave The Church for an easy way out. "Let's go to THAT church. They will fill our heads with things that we WANT to hear...all the time. They have bigger sanctuaries, better music...even a SNACK BAR!" It's a WalMart approach. Gimme what I want...right NOW.
The JOY of being Catholic is found through devotion, effort, deep prayer, and THOUGHT. It is sometimes challenging, but the rewards are unbeatable.
Our faith is a high maintance faith. It takes great commitment to remain faithful to the sacraments and especially going to Mass every weekend. In a fast paced do it yourself society, faith is the one thing that can get pushed to the side. As a cradle catholic raising 3 teens in the buckle of the bible belt, showing our Catholic faith can be a difficult thing. I hope to be an example to them and it is a struggle. How do you show your kids that religion isn't a menu at a buffet ?
Megan Huber
Southern Alabama
I hope I'm never one of the people who drives away other people, is all.
In 2000, our unborn baby was diagnosed with a fatal birth defect. We carried her to term. Our parish priest knew what we were going through and yet never offered us any kind of support or prayer. In fact, three days after we got the diagnosis, he asked me to bring the Eucharist to a mom in the hospital who had just delivered a healthy baby!
When it came time for Emily to be born (and die) I called the parish to arrange for her funeral. The priest called me back and told me he'd cancelled it. Not because the baby wasn't going to die, but because he didn't think an infant needed a funeral. He actually told me the Church forbids such a thing!
Here's the point at which, if I didn't know my faith backward and forward, I would have walked out and I'd now be Orthodox.
I knew darn well the Catholic Church doesn't teach something so stupid, so I got together all my resources. I had three other priests willing to come up to us to have the funeral. My previous parish priest from Brooklyn, now a monsignor, called us and gave my husband *talking points* to bring up to our parish priest. And after 30 minutes of being on the phone with the parish priest, my husband got him to admit a funeral for an infant is not forbidden, and therefore, we were going to have one.
This same priest refused to come to the hospital to baptize our daughter ("You can do that yourself") and wouldn't confirm her ("It's not necessary.") The hospital chaplain came out at midnight and confirmed her. Our daughter lived for two hours.
I reported the parish priest to the diocese, who covered it up. They told ME that clearly I had emotional problems, didn't ask anyone from the parish who saw all this happen for their input, and took a very nasty tone with me for daring to complain about what this priest had claimed was official Church teaching.
So yeah, darn right, other people have the power to drive away Catholics. But the previous commentors who have said that we have a responsibility to inform our own faith are also dead on the money. I was able to strike back because I had a network of friends who also knew Church doctrine, and I had my faith backing me up, and I had a deep conviction that although humans are stupid, God gave us this Church and, yeah, unfortunately, there's no one else to put in the pews but stupid humans.
We did, however, change parishes. And I still need to do work on forgiving that priest and the diocese official who covered up what he did.
Our daughter's story is online at http://www.geocities.com/tabris02
I'm so happy to see Andrew Sullivan continuing to stick to the faith. The gift of perseverance is a great gift for anyone.
Re: the main topic
I think the key is not just narrowing down this stuff to just one thing. You can get all the love in the world from Scientologists, right before they teach you false doctrine and do their best to make you a slave of their weird pseudo-religion. OTOH, Jesus Himself warned us that we were not going to get perpetual love and support from our friends.
Likewise, knowledge is not everything. We need to know what we believe and why, but it can't be a cold knowledge. Knowledge can save us from despairing when others in authority tell us lies, and pretend that their nasty ideas are really those of every Christian ever.
Likewise, practice is not everything. If we go to church and help the poor, but don't know why and don't have love, we're a clanging cymbal.
So yeah, we need to have a good parish with activities and reverence. But we also need a good "domestic parish" as a family, and we also need a good temple of the Holy Spirit inside us with a real life of individual piety.
And so forth. It all ties into each other. Sometimes life knocks away one of the chair legs, but as long as we've got others, we can get on. Not as well, maybe. But still. And then, those other legs still standing can help us fix the one that breaks.
We're Catholics. We're supposed to go for the complete package and the complete Way and Life and Truth, all at once.
I believe one of the reasons why they leave is that they do not know what the faith is based on. They are overwhelmed with so many recitations and prayers that they have to memorize that they miss the whole point of it all--that Jesus came to save us, and we should believe in him.
I know a lot of self-proclaimed Catholics who don't or have many doubts about Jesus' existence. Hearing it is very contradicting and left me confused.
In addition, the services are often boring and static. It is not dynamic, the messages are always the same story--as I heard.
I suggest the Catholic Church place more emphasis on Jesus and the Gospel so that the congregation will know they're true purpose.
At least that's what I put my faith on. By the way, I am a non-denominational christian.
What makes Catholics different from Christians? Don't catholics believe in Jesus and God's gift of salvation? If we both believe in that then we are from the same branch. It's just the rituals and practices that sets us apart.
I've been dealing with this kind of stuff my whole life, having a genetic disorder.
David's question has been answered by several. To me, the answers are twofold. One is Cardinal Newman: "Anyone who understands history cannot be a Protestant."
The other is the existence of the Maronite and Syro-Malabar Rites, the only Eastern Churches that have *never* been in schism from Rome. For every other Eastern sui iuris church, there is both an "Orthodox" and "Catholic" form, but not those two.
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